TEAM Points - Breakdown

Hi,

For those that like the technicalities of how the team points are calculated, the following picture gives the method.

I have adjusted the points according to the status of each team member for any particular race.

We have a set 24 grid slot allocations and whether or not the full 24 is present the team competition is about all 24 racers.

What this means is that if your team has a racer that doesn't pitch up for the race, they are still included because they were confirmed as part of the team and they HAD a slot for the race.

Essentially lower rated racers gain benefit from no showers as they automatically finish above them for the race.

Again, as always ensure your team members pitch up if they are in your team.

Are you continueing to only use the Leader board for this or are you including them regardless then?  as that would change the results for the last 2 races would it not?

FlavoredAtoms wrote:Are you continueing to only use the Leader board for this or are you including them regardless then?  as that would change the results for the last 2 races would it not?

Always including leaderboard.

But he non pitchers are in on race 1 and 2 now as a DNS on LB

ZAR Eries wrote:I have adjusted the points according to the status of each team member for any particular race.

We have a set 24 grid slot allocations and whether or not the full 24 is present the team competition is about all 24 racers.

What this means is that if your team has a racer that doesn't pitch up for the race, they are still included because they were confirmed as part of the team and they HAD a slot for the race.

Essentially lower rated racers gain benefit from no showers as they automatically finish above them for the race.

Again, as always ensure your team members pitch up if they are in your team.

Let me make sure I understand this. In any given race there is going to be a driver the is expected to come in 24th. but if only 14 drivers show up for the race and that driver "pitches up" and finishes last. the drivers e/a will be 24/14 and will receive a +10 for team points?

After a long discussion with Wolf last night and really explaining the teams points, I actually went back and did ONLY the following to check.

I gave Lightning a 4th place finish and not a DNF. I also removed the penalty Atoms received.

I gave Eries a 6th and Don a 7th, and Nova an 11th place.

So without the lag outs and that penalty the point standings could have been:

1. Icon - 64.85
2. Tailwind - 64.38
3. Penske - 60.36
4. Sunoco - 53.38
5. Division - 47.37
6. Brembo - 30.90

ZAR Eries wrote:After a long discussion with Wolf last night and really explaining the teams points, I actually went back and did ONLY the following to check.

I gave Lightning a 4th place finish and not a DNF. I also removed the penalty Atoms received.

I gave Eries a 6th and Don a 7th, and Nova an 11th place.

So without the lag outs and that penalty the point standings could have been:

1. Icon - 64.85
2. Tailwind - 64.38
3. Penske - 60.36
4. Sunoco - 53.38
5. Division - 47.37
6. Brembo - 30.90

During that conversation you said that my team left points on the board because Lightning dced but according to this points layout no we didn't. That was what I was asking you.... The scoring table you just listed accounts for the 1 point we lost due to atoms penalty and like a mysterious .02 points so did we or did we not leave points on the table? You said that due to the fact that Atoms was the one that finished and not lightning we lost potential points you said that if lightning would have been the one to finish we would earn more points which is clearly not the case. I also want to ask from that conversation it was said that if Eries were given a penalty that your team would somehow benefit from it I want to know how that is even remotely possible. A penalty is a penalty for a reason if there is a situation where a team is somehow benefitting from a penalty that seems like a major flaw. I only asked about two teams situations in particular because of statements made that were confusing. I have made no bones about that fact that I don't think this scoring system is going to work and that fast drivers will not likely stay around due to it. I mean zero offense to anybody but if a driver that finishes anywhere in the top lets say 5 potentially earns about as many points as someone who finished in the bottom 5 that is not conducive to keeping people who are fast or people who want to try. There are the people that are regulars here and likely they will always stay but the faster or new drivers may not stay is all I am saying. /shrug/ Final post on it

Yup, almost all above you recall from the conversation is true.

My post was a hypothetical for if all finished and didn't DNF.

Points will change naturally when people lag out as they have raced, but effectively finished at the bottom, in order of lag out, so your team might not have suffered too much due to the lag out of your team member per say, the remaining racers might even score slightly higher if any were of a lower rating than the racer that lagged out, and same too for every other racer that finished, which is where the mysterious points come from. Not mysterious at all, quite logical actually, if you understand this.

Example, if a tennis player plays the #1 seed, and #1 seed breaks his leg during the match. The other player will be marked as having beaten the #1. He will receive points, rank etc aligned with his victory.

On the penalty, a unique scenario. Remember that one of the points equated to a team, is penalty / compensation. If the compensation is higher than the penalty then the team will actually gain, the individual receiving the penalty will lose, but in this case if Eries was to receive -1 and Don anything more than +1 there would be a net benefit. Don arguably lost 7 positions, meaning he could have received +1.75. 1.75 - 1 = 0.75. It was unique in the fact that it was team mates and a lot of positions lost. However one could have argued the incident, maybe only 3 positions, maybe all 7, fortunately it is just a mention and an example.

But Don made it clear he was not logging the incident.

You almost understand, just some slight clarifications required.

PS, you need to also remember that this is a teams comp as clearly mentioned in our chat, continuing to just look at a driver, as in singular, will just confuse you and then it will never make sense.

Happy to answer more questions in chat.

Probably late on the subject as I've been busy with work, but what was the lag out order from the race at Road Atlanta? I thought it was, and going based off of memory, ZAR Eries first lag out, Lightning second lag out, Nova third, Don fourth. Is this correct with what you have?

Lag outs count as DNF. Order plays no influence as the DNF racers don't get contribution points. But if you have to state finishing order then the DNFs will be in order.

I find it odd how Nova and myself got 15 pts towards individual points but you and Don got 15.25 towards individual. If this is for a clean race bonus I can see it for myself as I had a warning, but so did you. And as for Nova why did he receive 15 pts? I'm just asking for clarity

No probs I will double check tomorrow. Yes a warning comes with losing the clean bonus.

You talking the previous race? So I can go check.

Yes I am referring to Road Atlanta, and thank you.

You are right.

I didn't put an x in the warning column.

Eries 15,
Don 15.25
Nova 15
Lightning 15

Hi Team leaders.

I do want to suggest a amendment.

Although the points structure is near perfect there is a single flaw that I want to bring in. It was never assumed that a non pitchers will miss more than 2 races. There is a standing rule that a racer missing more than two racers in the season will not be able to race the final, so it really is more inclusion of this standing rule rather than excluding it.

What this means is someone like a paddy as example will be effectively removed from the team after missing two races. Up to before Road Atlanta. In turn it would shrink the roster of racers to 23, meaning that the lowest position moves to 23rs and not 24th as is currently. Same for all racers that didn't pitch up for the race.

We never estimated that so many will simply not pitch.

I need an okay to do this. It would be the most fair thing to do, and it is all about fairness.

Top teams won't gain extra points at all, but lower teams will lose a little from race 3 onwards.

ZAR Eries wrote:Hi Team leaders.

I do want to suggest a amendment.

Although the points structure is near perfect there is a single flaw that I want to bring in. It was never assumed that a non pitchers will miss more than 2 races. There is a standing rule that a racer missing more than two racers in the season will not be able to race the final, so it really is more inclusion of this standing rule rather than excluding it.

What this means is someone like a paddy as example will be effectively removed from the team after missing two races. Up to before Road Atlanta. In turn it would shrink the roster of racers to 23, meaning that the lowest position moves to 23rs and not 24th as is currently. Same for all racers that didn't pitch up for the race.

We never estimated that so many will simply not pitch.

I need an okay to do this. It would be the most fair thing to do, and it is all about fairness.

Top teams won't gain extra points at all, but lower teams will lose a little from race 3 onwards.

I'm all for greater equality based on performances.  This seems a bit more sensible to me and solves the problem while at the same time supporting all the teams who put in the effort, so I like it.  Thanks.

I'm all for the amendment, but before I give my full go ahead for it, is there a way we all can see a cross reference to how this flaw is affecting current standings. And this is all being changed from the 3rd race onward?