IFCA Series News

Spent some time scouting the public lobbies for clean drivers and managed to introduce 4 new drivers to the relay format. Plopped them in some T/A cars to see how they liked them or didn't and it went very well. They were all shocked at how off the pace they were but liked the idea that they would be allowed the faster Factory build.

Thanks for the help

GTDon2 wrote:I hope not

HIYA, Turtle boy, all the buttons seem fine from PC?

*** Just a test as Don says he might be having issues with buttons on his side

GTDon2 wrote:Looks like your buttons are there. Hmm, some kind of bug in my PC? I tried Explorer too and no buttons.

I have checked the admin section and all seems good, try chrome reinstall?

Thanks guys for all your help too!

GTDon2 wrote:I fixed it!  It was some kind of problem with my virus protection blocking information collection on the site.
(Actually, I had to call my son who is a big league IT guy for the US Navy and he figured it out pronto!)

Ahhh okay cool!

Okay, now that we are back on track thanks to original founder eries and new man Skitchin, we can resume.

ZAR Eries wrote:

GTDon2 wrote:I fixed it!  It was some kind of problem with my virus protection blocking information collection on the site.
(Actually, I had to call my son who is a big league IT guy for the US Navy and he figured it out pronto!)

Ahhh okay cool!

Hello ZAR, good to see you are still around.

In case some of you didn't see this on the build page.  Gives everyone an idea about which car does what.






Cars
1.1965 Mustang GT Coupe  --great acceleration, poor top speed, poor handling
2.1969 Mustang Boss 302  --smooth, fast, not easy to drive, lap record holder
3.1970 Mercury Cougar  --great top speed, poor acceleration, 
4.1971 AMC Javelin AMX  --light, agile, great brakes, easy to drive
5.1969 Firebird Trans Am  --fast, average handling, good acceleration, top heavy
6.1970 Camaro Z/28  --very balanced, good top end, strange braking
7.1969 Camaro SS  --big speed, strong acceleration, difficult handling at times
8.1970 Dodge Challenger 426 Hemi  --big block Hemi acceleration, settled chassis, easy to drive
9.1971 Plymouth Cuda  -- great all-around performer, fun to drive even at the limit

EZT TomCat7 wrote:

ZAR Eries wrote:

GTDon2 wrote:I fixed it!  It was some kind of problem with my virus protection blocking information collection on the site.
(Actually, I had to call my son who is a big league IT guy for the US Navy and he figured it out pronto!)

Ahhh okay cool!

Hello ZAR, good to see you are still around.

Tomcat! Good to see you are still using the avatar we made lol ... good stuff buddy!!!

For those of you who have visited the IFCA https://ifca.forumotion.com/forum and monitored our progress for the 2019 Trans-Am Relay Challenge April 13th, some very cool things have emerged. The car list is set at 9 original T/A cars from back in the day. In the future, (season 4) we will be adding the Euro cars that did compete in Trans-Am too.

Our T/A cars were built more by feel and performance than hard numbers because we wanted to get away from the modern car feel with perfectly controlled suspension and chassis. We wanted to give the cars good tires, but not too good, and we wanted to allow drivers to tune the basics like brakes, anti-roll bars, diffs, and final drives. Doing so produced cars that literally lean towards the way real Trans-Am cars behave. 

If you watch the HTA video of the actual T/A cars you'll see that the cars do roll around a bit, nose-dive under braking, and are at the limit of traction. And they are very fast relative to their automotive technology too. Just enough speed to possibly overwhelm the rest of the car if you don't play careful. But like all videos you seldom get the true measure of motion as you would if you were in the car. Same in Forza replays for that matter. Watching a replay from outside is far different and calmer looking then when driving from the inside.

Most of the T/A series I've raced in were fun but the cars were always a little too good, a little too much like modern sports cars. We get very spoiled driving cars that have all the goodies and do everything with great control, and forget that it wasn't always like this. Tires didn't grip, brakes faded, chassis's flexed, hp/tq was big, cars were heavy, and steering feel was less than precise back in the day. We think we have captured some of this old school feel in our 9 T/A cars. They hover around 450hp and 3200lbs, and can run into the 160s at Daytona. And when you brake from triple-digit speeds they can be a handful to slow down as the nose dives, chassis twists and the tires squirm under the pressure. The tires are race compound tires but not very wide which is probably the key for getting the correct feel and grip to start with. Under hard acceleration, you can break the tires loose even in 3rd gear if you aren't careful. All put together what you get are cars that don't drive themselves as modern cars do. There's a lot of playing with the throttle mid-corner and counter steering and patience. That's right, it takes patience to drive these cars well. You have to set up for turns, you have to ease-on the throttle, and you have to brake at the limit. These are drivers cars and really allow a driver to display their skill at driving.

This is all fine and good, but it spells certain defeat and permanent backmarker status for the less skilled driver. There is a huge gap between Forza drivers in any series. You have the fast guys, and you have the slow, and not much in between. Put everyone in cars that demand even more driving skill and the gap becomes even greater. 

But have no fear you who are "velocity challenged" we have a solution! Our 9 cars have two builds. One base build for the fast guys, and a much better/faster build for the slower guys. Unlike real life, if you are slower than average (average being rated 1950.00 on the IFCA scale) you get to drive the "Factory Build." This means your car has lighter wheels, better suspension, more hp, and possibly wider tires. The "Factory" version of each T/A car is about 0.7sec per lap faster than our base "Privateer" build as a result. In testing, this means that a below average driver can run about the same times as an above average driver. So really for the first time, a slower driver can compete for poles and podiums on an equal basis with the faster guys! This increases the fun of racing because everyone on the grid will be racing closer together than they otherwise would be. It gives the lower skilled drivers real hope of winning, and it puts more pressure on the faster drivers who no longer have to face accusations of always picking the fastest car or having the best build. In fact, the faster drivers can gain the true respect of everyone by winning in what everyone knows is a slower car!

To help you and your teammate (that's right, you have to have a teammate to run a relay race), here is the list of cars with a short pros/cons description of each car.

Cars
1.1965 Mustang GT Coupe --great acceleration, poor top speed, poor handling
2.1969 Mustang Boss 302 --smooth, fast, not easy to drive, lap record holder
3.1970 Mercury Cougar --great top speed, poor acceleration, 
4.1971 AMC Javelin AMX --light, agile, great brakes, easy to drive
5.1969 Firebird Trans Am --fast, average handling, good acceleration, top heavy
6.1970 Camaro Z/28 --very balanced, good top end, strange braking
7.1969 Camaro SS --big speed, strong acceleration, difficult handling at times
8.1970 Dodge Challenger 426 Hemi --big block Hemi acceleration, settled chassis, easy to drive
9.1971 Plymouth Cuda -- great all-around performer, fun to drive even at the limit


First round qualifying begins a week from this Saturday, March 16th @ Daytona 24hr. Your team will get 3 weekly attempts to lay down a good enough time to be in the limited 12 team field. The first of 6 races will be @ Daytona 24hr on Saturday April 13th 6:00 EST. 

Hope to see you there! 

Contact FRB Incognito, GTDon2, CRC Skitchin, SPEEDYJAB09, or RIOT ChevyPower to set up a qualification run.

Had some great practice laps with Latte Speed and ChevyPower @ Laguna! We tried 69 Camaro, 70 Camaro, 65 Mustang, and 71 Cuda.

We all ran within 0.1 of each other even when in different cars.  It was fantastically close racing.  This is going to be epic high pressure racing at its best.

The T/A cars add a new dimension to driving Forza cars.  Weight transfer becomes a major consideration while braking and turning and accelerating.  A driver can easily upset the car if they don't understand this. But once they re-calibrate their thinking car control sets in with predictable motion.

GS Class
ChevyPower 1:28.753
Skitchin 1:28.946
GTDon 1:29.116


ST Class
TomCat 1:38.774
RedRum 1:39.653
Midnite Rider 1:40.302

That's right people, preparations are already being made for Season 4 on June 8th.  But this is how it is always done behind the scenes here at the IFCA.  Unknown to most there is a lot of testing going on well before the current season is completed.

With all the attention and good responses we are getting for Season 3 which begins April 13th, we are making plans for a Season 4 Trans-Am sequel which will include all the remaining cars that did in fact race in the real series!  That's right!  With a little research, we have nailed down most if not all the cars that competed in Trans-Am in the hay day of the series between 1966 and 1971.  

There are a couple of cars that we will include that didn't run to make up for a couple of cars that are not offered in FM7 to round out the selections.  The additional 20 or so cars in Season 4 includes the under 3.0L class cars too!  Like Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Datsun, Lotus, and Ferrari. These smaller Euro/Asia cars were in their own class but were also close enough in performance to win outright against the American Pony cars.  Sort of like having an undivided multi-class race.

Cars to be included:

Lotus Cortina
1965 Pontiac GTO
Datsun 510
Datsun 280Z
1973 Porsche 911
Porsche 914/6
Porsche 924
Pontiac Firebird 73 and 77
1966 Chevy Nova
Dodge Dart
Aston Martin DB5
Shelby Cobra
Ferrari 250/365
1961 Jaguar
Alfa Romeo GTA
1967 Corvette
1966 Corvette
1970 Corvette
1979 Camaro Z/28

1967 Lamborghini Miura




Hard to say exactly which cars can be made competitive and which can't at this stage but we think most of them can.  Our thinking is that after hearing some feedback from a lot of people, not everyone likes driving muscle cars exclusively and it would be nice to include the original Euro/Asian cars to complete the series car list.  That way, if you prefer a smaller, lighter better handling car that can still compete, you can join in on the fun.


The other reason to add all these cars is just for the sake of diversity.  It's cool to see the original cars competing together all on one track in a fun format that challenges the car and the driver.


The smaller cars will get no extra help in the build department however and will have to abide by the same basic Trans-Am build as the Pony cars, with full race brakes, race anti-roll bars, race roll cage, race diff, sport trans, race clutch, race flywheel, and stock suspension.  Although we may see the need for a race transmission for one or two new cars as no sport trans is offered.  They will also be built with an upgraded Factory spec build for the under 1950.000 rated drivers.




More to come...

GS Class
Skitchin 1:22.456
ChevyPower  1:23.345
ThatGuyRacing 1:23.514

ST Class
TomCat 1:33.878
Typick 1:34.795
Midnite Rider 1:35.657

This is the view I use.  This is me in 1970 Challenger running a 1:57.399 in the Privateer build A619.

I know, Season 3 hasn't even begun, and I'm already talking about Season 4!  But to make a good series you really do have to make plans in advance.  

In Season 4 we are adding all the known and available Trans-Am cars Forza has to offer to our existing 9 car Season 3 list.  With some deep research, I was able to discover what cars raced between 1966 and 1972.  Primarily to find out what cars were in the under 2.0L/3.0L class. Back then there were two feature classes that ran together as a multi-class.  There were the "Pony Cars" (muscle cars) of MOPAR, Ford and Chevy in the over 3.0L class, and there were the imports in the under 3.0L.   From time to time depending on the track the small cars would actually win overall.  The smaller Porsches, Alfas, Ferraris, Datsuns, Volvos, didn't have the power and speed of the domestic V8 cars, but what they lacked in top speed they more than made up for in handling and braking.  And that's what we have here for Season 4.  An attempt to not only equalize the cars within their respective classes but also across classes so we get that same defining difference between the two fields.

This means that you are still going to want to use a big fast American V8 to qualify into the season, but your season car could be very different, it could be a small agile foreign car.  Already I see people asking, "so is Season 4 going to be a multi-class format?"  The answer is no. However, we will recognize 2 champions.  One for the over 3.0L and one for the under 3.0L.  The reason is, is because these cars, as different as they are, are very equal over the course of the season.  The small import cars are going to have their advantage on smaller tight tracks, just as the muscle cars do on the longer tracks.  We will be adding Sebring to the current schedule of tracks for Season 4 making it a 7 track season too. 

I hope you guys have fun and appreciate the effort that went into balancing the cars.  We came up with an amazing number of different cars, almost all of which actually raced in the real Trans-Am series.  There were a few Forza didn't have, and some that were off by one model year or something, so there are some substitutes but not many.  The Dodge Dart is not the correct model, the GTO is off by 1 year, the Porsche 904 should be a 906, the Volvo 123 should be a 122, stuff like that.  But essentially these are the same cars with different grills.  

Perhaps the most surprising car I found was the VW Super Beetle!  It wasn't a regular but did race. Go Herbie!  The 1965 GTO was another surprise, that is, the original car was a 1964 Pontiac Tempest LeMans which would become the GTO in 65.  The Tempest was a privateer effort and did surprisingly well nearly winning one race before the motor blew on the last lap. The Forza GTO is for all practical purposes identical.

So yeah, take a gander at the official list below.  I think we nailed the character and performance of each car.  It is going to be very hard to pick a favorite. lol  It will be a while before I post the build sheets, and I still have to test the factory versions. (sigh)



1970 Datsun 510
1969 Datsun 240Z/Nissan Fairlady Z 432
1964 Porsche 904 Carrera GTS
1970 Porsche 914/6
1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS
1966 Corvette FF
1967 Corvette Stingray
1970 Corvette ZR-1
1962 Ferrari 250 GTO
1962 Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta Lusso
1968 Ferrari 365 GTB/4
1966 Ford Lotus Cortina
1973 Ford Capri RS3100
1973 Ford Escort RS1600
1977 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
1973 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
1965 Pontiac GTO
1979 Camaro Z/28
1966 Nova SS
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia TZ2
1968 Lancia Fulvia
1967 Lamborghini Miura
1964 Aston Martin DB5
1967 Volvo 123GT
1973 Renault Alpine A110
1968 Dodge Dart
1973 BMW 2002 Turbo
1961 Jaguar E-Type
1963 VW Beetle 
1965 Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe

Add these cars to our current Trans-Am list of 9 and we will have 40 cars for Season 4 to pick from!

Hey, I owned a 1965 GTO Back in the early 70's. I will have to try it out, plus a few more.
My 1st ride in a corvette was a 1953 blue 6 cylinder back in 1956.

And the 40th car entry for Season 4 will be...

1965 Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe!

Seems appropriate, doesn't it.  But due to the fact that the Daytona Coupe is more of a one-off fabricated race car, certain compromises had to be made just to slow it down for the field.

It is the only car on Sport tires, and has no engine upgrades.  It's that good.

Other notables, the Lancia Fulvia is our only FWD car, and a couple of cars were so dangerously undrivable as low A-Class cars with Stock suspension, that we had to give them Street suspension instead.

GS
Skitchin 1:14.918
GTDon 1:15.216
ChevyPower 1:15.370

ST
TomCat 1:23.255
Rider 1:25.851
Kane 1:26.397

[size=30]FYI ALL, LCQ is now OPEN for this weekend (Last Chance Qualy) one last chance to improve your times! Message me if you don't see me and we will get you done. Next Saturday April 6th 6:00EST we will be inviting everyone to our practice race as a way to get everyone on board with the format before the real race on April 13th[/size]

I was able to add 2 more cars for season 4.  The Mini Cooper and the Dino Ferrari.  The Cooper was particularly difficult to include but an essential Trans-Am member.  It required a near maximum build as the only car with a race trans and race suspension.  Believe me, it needs it to be competitive with all the other cars.  Even so, it will require a special technique to drive as well as skill.  Easily the most difficult to drive car of the lot.

It has been quite challenging and fun to build and equalize the next season's cars.  Hopefully, everyone can and will appreciate the effort and balancing act if you will, of our attempt.

Many of you have personally helped me get these cars right and know that it is a titanic struggle.  Although I'm a pretty solid test driver, it doesn't mean that I'm foolproof.  My method helps a lot in this regard.  Each car is tested and retested 3 times.  First is just to get them in the same general P.I. vicinity to each other and figure out what level will be best for all the cars in general. The second test is to then bring them closer together.  And the third test is to double check and fine tune each car to discover which ones might be off a little before we publish the builds.

During all this testing I have to consider what level of performance and kind of performance I want for the various types of cars that will best suit the cars original character and still be competitive across what is essentially 2 classes.  It's not just about outright performance and lap times either.  It is also about making each car as fun to drive as possible.  We want the cars to be the stars in essence, not by stuffing them full of racing parts and being insane to drive, but by making them as easy to drive as possible without being overbuilt and becoming something they are not.  So that you the driver can appreciate them as they were intended and actually enjoy your seat time with them knowing that you also have a competitive ride.

It's easy to build cars to their maximum potential, or just go with an open build formula, anyone can do that, but customizing them for equality while retaining originality and their old school feel is entirely different.  Add in the fact that there are really 2 classes being compared and things get a lot more difficult.  On top of this, each car has 2 different builds.  One for faster drivers and one for slower drivers.  Slower drivers get the faster "Factory" build and faster drivers get the slower "Privateer" build.  Call it 40 cars x 2 builds x 3 test sessions, or around 720+ laps of testing.  If any of you are wondering how to get faster, this is one way to do it, be an IFCA test driver. lol

And even though all this work goes into testing, occasionally a car or two will still be too slow or fast depending.  The reason is, is because we don't have time to run each car as if it were our own for the series.  We can't spend the time to pound on just one car over and over as you the competitors get to do.  The best that we can do is try to get all the cars up to a level that gives them what I call "equal potential." 

What we can do and what really helps is after the season is over and we see which cars did what, we can BoP them for the next season thus making the group super close for the next season.  Over time, with the data from actual racing, we can adjust the cars even further. And this is the long term intent with the IFCA Relay Challenge, to create a series whose standards are extremely high and can be relied upon for fair and close racing whether you are below average or above average as dictated by the IFCA Ratings Computer.

So with all this said I hope you can begin to appreciate what goes into making this the fun and unique series what it is.  We will continue to create additional seasons with new themes under the relay team format.  We will return to previous car groups and create new ones as we go.  Perhaps one day when T10 figures out how to do driver exchanges we will be able to mimic endurance racing as it should be.  Until then we hope you have fun and that this format keeps Forza fresh for you all.