Re: Log a Request for Investigation

by **IFCA Eries** Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:43 am

I get more of what you mean now.

Don and I are aligned maybe my message is just lost in translation. Let's chat rather.

by **IFCA GTDon** Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:11 pm

After a series of very long talks and even heated debates, it has been determined that we should add a layer to our existing penalty system in order to reduce penalties as much as possible along with any hard feelings that could result. The idea is to try to mitigate the bad and enhance the good of the IFCA penalty system.

As most know, we do not enjoy ruling on penalties and have taken a very casual approach over the years in order to keep the focus more on racing and less on post race litigation. So in the future please try not to fight about an incident during the race or after the race. Instead, (and this is the new layer) what we want you to do is talk it over with your team leader first. Then, your team leader can consult and confer with the other team leaders who represent the other drivers involved. After this happens a determination can be made on exactly what happened and if a penalty should or should not be issued.

If all sides agree nothing should be done, then no one will log an investigation. If either side disagrees and thinks a penalty is warranted, then the team leader and/or driver who was injured is authorized to log an investigation.

As noted in the log process in the first post of this thread:

"Firstly, we want everyone who may have been involved in an incident to consult with their team leader before logging an investigation. Get with your team leader first and go over the details. Your team leader, once informed, will then confer with the team leader or leaders of the other drivers involved as a means to diffuse and mitigate the problem as much as possible before mediation is conducted. If no resolution is achieved between team leaders or if it becomes clear a penalty or penalties should be issued, then the team leader is authorized to log the investigation or have the injured driver log it. ZAR Eries and WhiskeySix1 will then investigate and recommend what they think the penalty should be. Then GTDon will issue the actual penalty or penalties based on the recommendation."

This means that it is still possible though unlikely that GTDon may not issue the recommended penalty. It is still up to him to decide the severity of the penalty with the stipulation that whatever the final penalty is, it should not exceed what the recommendation is.

And for those who might be wondering, our penalty system was never intended to be punitive in the first place like in real racing. We race for fun, not money. All we want to do is slap hands at most and give everyone the sense that there are some limits. Most of our drivers if not all understand this and are self policing. We really haven't had a lot of problems with contact incidents. We feel by adding this extra step we can refine the penalty system to an even finer degree that helps everyone have a voice and a process to make things right.

Thanks to all the team leaders and drivers who helped make this adjustment. Special thanks to Wolf, OneShot, Whiskey, Eries, and Lightning for hammering this out.

Be advised that we will be having a Team Leader meeting as well as a driver meeting before the release of FM8.

Thank you for your support,
GTDon

by **ITS_Wi11iE** Sun Aug 06, 2023 6:20 am

ITSWI11IE
August 5th, Road America, Season 20
Final lap
EarnedCarrot925 made contact with my rear bumper two different times on final lap in the final series of corners. The contact in the final corner ended up costing me a position. I do have a video recording to assist.

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:28 am

Earnedcarrot925
January 20th 2024 Kayalami
first lap corner 5

i do feel i came in hot on the inside of the inside of the corner in an attempt to late brake to take initiation on corner exit. but i feel there was no attempts lessen the contact made as i was pushed into a 180.
possible could be my fault but it did happen and put me at a huge disadvantage the rest of the race.

here is a clip of the incident from my P.O.V.

https://clips.twitch.tv/NaiveAgileMushroomPlanking-pR71qOV76wD6ZAoh

by **Earnedcarrot925** Sun Jan 21, 2024 11:59 am

From my view from the race and the video I feel like it was a dive bomb attempt or coming too hot as I was already committing to the corner. I was dealing with the invisible car glitch there was no power from me to stop him spinning out but if it’s my fault sorry.

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:14 pm

Om curious to what extent you were dealing with the invisible car glitch

by **Earnedcarrot925** Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:49 pm

as they were ghosted like in rivals and I felt no feedback on my end if I bumped them that is why I was being cautious with other racers and giving them room

by **IFCA GTDon** Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:57 pm

Co0l_5tory_br0 wrote:Earnedcarrot925
January 20th 2024 Kayalami
first lap corner 5

i do feel i came in hot on the inside of the inside of the corner in an attempt to late brake to take initiation on corner exit. but i feel there was no attempts lessen the contact made as i was pushed into a 180.
possible could be my fault but it did happen and put me at a huge disadvantage the rest of the race.

here is a clip of the incident from my P.O.V.

https://clips.twitch.tv/NaiveAgileMushroomPlanking-pR71qOV76wD6ZAoh

This incident has been reviewed. Thank you for presenting us the information carrot.

The IFCA Race Officials ruling is that bro did make a mistake and came in way too hot, but, because it was he who suffered the most for his ill fated attempt, we see this as a self correcting racing incident where the offender earned his own penalty by going off the track, while the offended driver lost no positions.

No further analysis will be needed on this. bro drove very well the rest of the race, you just can't be too eager sometimes.

We do wish more people like carrot would point things out officially or even unofficially so that everyone can get a good feel for what is allowed and what isn't.

by **fabiomqs** Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:42 am

APX TREMEC
February 3rd 2024 Silverstone
thirteenth lap

It seems to me that Tremec intentionally forced overtaking on the corner with several collisions.

here is a clip of the incident from my P.O.V.

https://youtu.be/2eB7GnocLSM

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:25 am

fabiomqs wrote:APX TREMEC
February 3rd 2024 Silverstone
thirteenth lap

It seems to me that Tremec intentionally forced overtaking on the corner with several collisions.

here is a clip of the incident from my P.O.V.

You should post both of the videos. This one could be argued " he didn't see you" since his car barely reacted But the second video shows he was aware of you and spun him self after hitting you. Here's the other one for you
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1165388299028930695/1203510774065270834/2ae45992-851b-4712-94cc-6dff71a31428.mp4?ex=65d15bc0&is=65bee6c0&hm=4d0352a826fb987d14d8435224d4f7852ef101248bde92651f136fd5cc5ec397&

https://youtu.be/2eB7GnocLSM

by **IFCA Eries** Sun Jul 14, 2024 4:18 am

1. IFCA Eries
2. 13 July 2024, Spec Series, Sebring
3. 1, corner 1 as well as multiple contacts
4. Incident with Bro
5. Bro made contact with my rear left bumper/side, causing my car to go into a PIT, He kept pushing causing me to further rotate and pushed me completely off track into the barrier, so violently that my car shot up into the air. He didnt wait and further in the race continued to rear end me multiple times.

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Sun Jul 14, 2024 4:57 pm

So as the judgment goes. I need more clarification. I'll take the lick for the first turn. Though I feel like my line was free. Being wide on a turn doesn't grant you right of way to stay on the track. He was not forced wide, but chose so as the line I was following was in momentum with a car ahead and behind me.

Moving forwards, to contest the other three bumps Eris encountered with me. As I posted on the discord, the only time he slowed suddenly causing me to hit him was in a corner where grip is already limited. The only time he dropped 40+ mph on the last corner was when I was in proximity. I even bring up verbally on my stream when it happened because it was so unnatural. They were obvious brake. Strategy or not that falls in the index of line blocking.

The first crash fine. Because I didn't wait for him to get Infront. Even though I had initiation on the turn.

Absolutely unacceptable for the other strike.
The last five laps I out drove you. Brake checks and all. If you would of stayed ahead you wouldn't have filed a grievance. ~

by **IFCA GTDon** Sun Jul 14, 2024 6:18 pm

Co0l_5tory_br0 wrote:So as the judgment goes. I need more clarification. I'll take the lick for the first turn. Though I feel like my line was free. Being wide on a turn doesn't grant you right of way to stay on the track. He was not forced wide, but chose so as the line I was following was in momentum with a car ahead and behind me.

Moving forwards, to contest the other three bumps Eris encountered with me. As I posted on the discord, the only time he slowed suddenly causing me to hit him was in a corner where grip is already limited. The only time he dropped 40+ mph on the last corner was when I was in proximity. I even bring up verbally on my stream when it happened because it was so unnatural. They were obvious brake. Strategy or not that falls in the index of line blocking.

The first crash fine. Because I didn't wait for him to get Infront. Even though I had initiation on the turn.

Absolutely unacceptable for the other strike.
The last five laps I out drove you. Brake checks and all. If you would of stayed ahead you wouldn't have filed a grievance. ~

I agree, I think more clarifciation is indeed in order, not just for you but everyone reading this. We need to clarify the olde racing argument of, "I saw an opening, and went for it, shot the gap I did, versus, establishing your position first."

Too often over eager drivers make the attempt to shoot for a gap by dive bomb, or from way too far back. This often leads to over shooting and/or T-boning your competitor with hard contact, not at the fault of the leading car, but by the over optimistic over aggressive following car. And this is what we have here.

Had Bro not made contact, or very slight contact at most, he could then justify why he went for it and use the argument he is using right now. And that would have been fair. But when you overshoot the gap and run into the back half of the car in front of you, and take him out, then there is no defence I can create for you. Other than to say traction is at its worst at the start of the race, and that wiser drivers would not risk hitting someone like that on the first lap into the first turn. So, don't be that guy.

You forgot to mention the other reason for your penalties, which is considered a grievous one here at the IFCA, and that was, after causing the crash, you neglected to wait for Eries. He was dead last by a lot, (and yet still managed to catch up to you.) So the other strike is actually a twofer, it is for not waiting, and repeated contact. Which I think seems more fair to you than giving you 3 strikes and -3pts, don't you agree? I think it is a small proof that I'm being very lenient and mild and not hard about it at all. Ask anyone who has been penalized (which is almost everyone including me) if this a consistent ruling? They will tell you that it is very standard and nothing unusual given the circumstances.

One other aspect that goes into my calculations as many here know, is the driving skill, driver history, and driver reputation. Eries is as fair a driver as I have ever met going all the way back to our days with FM1 when he was like my arch enemy in the public lobbies. But you wanna know what? He never dive bombed me, or hit me, or squeezed me off the track or brake checked me in any race. He just beat me fair and square countless times. I never thought he was dirty in the way he drove, he was just faster. He continues to be this way today, as are many here at the IFCA, and I want it to remain that way.

This is a hobby gents, we are not professional drivers, please try to keep the perspective that we are here to have a bit of fun driving hard and close but not at the expense of our fellow drivers.

Thanks

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Sun Jul 14, 2024 7:55 pm

So the rapid braking in a section of a corner that naturally wouldnt occur. Conveniently happened when I was trailing. And not other cars around. And not happening when alone on the track is validated?

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Sun Jul 14, 2024 7:57 pm

Fine I'll take the points. I too am fair and a clean driver. But doodoo happens.

See you on the track Eries

by **IFCA GTDon** Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:08 pm

Co0l_5tory_br0 wrote:So the rapid braking in a section of a corner that naturally wouldnt occur. Conveniently happened when I was trailing. And not other cars around. And not happening when alone on the track is validated?

Again, you are attempting to color Eries in a bad light that is totally unfamiliar to me and everyone here. If you want to be fair and honest you need to do as I do, and consider the driver's past behavior and ask, "Is Eries always like this, has he always raced like this?" If the objective answer to this question is no, then you need to reassess your conclusion and come to a different conclusion that is more in-line with his actual driving habits and sportsmanship. Like, 'his car is more of a handful than mine, it's understandable that he is going to have to slow down more than me in turns. If I put pressure on him he might try to go too fast and be forced to use the brakes more than when he runs alone.'

by **IFCA GTDon** Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:10 pm

Co0l_5tory_br0 wrote:Fine I'll take the points. I too am fair and a clean driver. But doodoo happens.

See you on the track Eries

I detect a little fun intent here. I hope it's not a threat of retaliation which goes against what I've already said.

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:29 pm

Absolutely not...i don't retaliate..I just know I can out drive Eris and don't need cheap brake checks to do it

by **IFCA Eries** Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:54 am

Just FYI, I was honestly not brake checking you, I was driving my socks off. The car also wasnt right, I was way off pace, and tried my utmost ro not impede you as you would have noticed many times where you were side by side sticking to the side leaving you space always.

You could have so easily taken me earlier just by not driving the driving line. I stuck to that line religiously thinking, okay he will adapt and go wider and take me, let me not drve a different line.

My suggestion is to learn different lines, which would greatly improve your driving.

Looking forward to this newly developed rivalry.

by **IFCA GTDon** Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:17 pm

I like this idea of course. I have had many one on one showdowns with people over the years who wanted to settle a score, or prove a point. These sorts of match races can be very exciting for both the drivers and the fans. In fact I would love to have some sort of regular match race format that would pit people against their rivals or against people that had a "beef" with you. It's an excellent way to settle things and have enormous fun at the same time.

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:47 pm

I usually prone to taking the off line that's habit. but that last turn there is no off line
And secondly Don knows what happened on an 1v1 with me

by **IFCA GTDon** Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:59 pm

Co0l_5tory_br0 wrote:I usually prone to taking the off line that's habit. but that last turn there is no off line
And secondly Don knows what happened on an 1v1 with me

Showing up when it doesn't count, doesn't count. Lol

But beware grasshopper, you'd not get hours of practice in this scenario. I'm sure Eries will want to race right away.

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:02 pm

Where's the "yawn" emoji

by **Co0l_5tory_br0** Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:15 pm

🥱 there it is

by **IFCA Eries** Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:36 am

Co0l_5tory_br0 wrote:I usually prone to taking the off line that's habit. but that last turn there is no off line
And secondly Don knows what happened on an 1v1 with me

Wrong.

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